Chung Yufeng and "Pendulum" -- An Interview
2018.04.24 Taipei
The following is a radio interview on Taipei’s 90.9FM with host Stephanie "Kafei-mao" Yang, which aired on April 26, 2018. (This translated version, from Mandarin Chinese to English, has been edited and condensed in some parts for clarity.)
On today’s program, I welcome a musician I particularly adore, pipa player Chung Yufeng. Her debut solo album, "which is called "Pendulum," has finally been released and marks the culmination of a ten-year journey. Chung Yufeng is here to tell us about the story of "Pendulum." Welcome, Yufeng.
Hello, Kafei-mao, thank you, and hello everyone! As you mentioned, it took 10 years for me to conceive, write, and record the album. The name "Pendulum" came to mind because everyone's perception of the pipa is tied to traditional Chinese music. The pendulum, as a tool for measuring time, came to mind when I first had an opportunity to collaborate with musicians who were not from the Chinese music tradition. It was a challenge for me because the pipa’s role in Chinese music is somewhat limited when it comes to groove and rhythm. So when I started to work with musicians from different countries and traditions, I had to approach my instrument in a fresh, new way. So I thought of the pipa like a pendulum, a basic instrument for measuring and keeping time. That was the starting point for me to compose these songs. The main illustration on the CD cover reflects the journey. It was done by my friend who is a musician and scholar, Hsieh Jie-ting. He took an old illustration of a Nanguan-style pipa and made it look like a sailing ship. I think the image of the ship being rocked back and forth on the ocean waves accurately describes this project, which was a long, musical trip that swung back and forth between East and West, and the traditional and the modern.
There are many stereotypes associated with the pipa: Chinese music, [Confucian] tradition, the image of the instrument being strummed by a woman wearing a qipao. But actually, many musicians have been taking up new and challenging endeavors with the pipa. You have spent many years playing this instrument in different musical settings around the world, breaking the barriers of tradition by trying new things. Can you talk overall about the makeup of the music on this album?
I worked with three different groups of musicians from different cultural backgrounds. The first group I worked with was at the Migration Music Festival (in Taipei) in 2006, which consisted of Ramesh Shotham of South India, Hungarian violinist Zoltán Lantos, and a German composer and pianist named Matthias Frey -- we call this group the "Apfelhof (Apple Orchard) Friends." The second group was Sambasunda, a traditional music ensemble from Indonesia, and the third set is composed of two Swedish musicians, Daniel Fredriksson and Daniel Pettersson.
Talk about working with the Swedish musicians from Sotali (Daniel Fredriksson and Daniel Pettersson), and their instruments, the Mandola and Nyckelharpa.
Sweden's traditional music falls under the Nordic folk music family. Like everywhere else in the 1960s and 1970s, Sweden was experiencing a folk music revival. One interesting thing that's hard to believe is that the Mandola is a new sound in traditional Swedish folk music. It wasn't used in the music until the 1980s by a musician named Ale Möller. The Nyckelharpa dates back to 1350, but almost became extinct until the 1960s. A combined effort by the Swedish government, musicians, and scholars helped to revive the instrument's use. So both of these instruments and the story of their role in folk music gave me a lot of food for thought in terms of what I'm trying to do.
I really enjoyed the song "From Woman to Woman". Please tell us more about it.
This was one of the first original pieces I composed. Back then, I had no idea how to compose own my own. All I knew then was that I wanted to have something dedicated to women. Many traditional songs written for the pipa evoke “Guiyuan” stories (tales of the tragic circumstances of women in ancient and imperial China). But I wanted to express something that affirms the stories of the hardship and struggles of women in a more positive and modern way. It's a song for my mother, and it's also a song for all women.
With Sotali, there's the song "The Sleepless Cuckoo (in 9/8time)." There are other songs in interesting rhythmic meters on the album. What made you compose these songs in this way?
I wanted to prove to myself that I could write songs for the pipa in unusual time signatures (other than the typical 4/4). Working with Sotali was a perfect opportunity, since Swedish Polska music is often in 9/8 time. So to prepare for my collaboration, I wrote the piece with the beats split into 3-2-2-2 (as in counting "1, 2, 3, 1-2, 1-2, 1-2"). However I didn't get it exactly right. Polska songs are indeed in 9/8, but the beats are split differently, into 3-3-3 or 2-2-2-3. So my intended tribute to Swedish folk didn't turn out as I had planned, but we were all happy with the result nonetheless.
Tell us about the song "Siwa."
This recording was a collaboration with the Indonesian Gamelan ensemble Sambasunda. I wrote it based on Arabic scale. It was great to see them excited to play this song, they seemed to love it. For me, it was the perfect collaboration, for I've learned that if a musician is not interested in the music at hand, then it won't work, no matter how much you force it. Being a Muslim country, Indonesia has many Arabic influences, so the song transformed into an Asian-Arabic hybrid. This recording was a very exciting version for me. Last year, I performed with the band at a festival in Indonesia, and when I arrived for an evening rehearsal, the electricity had gone out. It was such a pleasure to practice "Siwa" in the pitch-black dark.
*To further describe Sambasunda's music, I came to realize their music has a beauty that one finds in [Taiwan's] indigenous music. Add to that their Indian and Arabic influences, you have something very special. The frequencies in gamelan music are so pleasing to the ear. The first time I heard the metal mallet [percussion], I thought, how can music sound so good, so rich? So with "Siwa," I wanted to set up the song's arrangement to let these musicians shine. Even though we were of different races and cultures, we were able to connect using a unique vocabulary we developed together. We completely understood each other like distant relatives. [*This excerpt was added from a separate interview with another radio program host, Ma Shih-fang, 2018/05/15]
A few years back, I got to interview the members of Sambasunda and found out that you guys didn't use written scores. Or rather, you did have written scores, but they were only sparsely noted with just a few bars -- play here, rest here...so how did you memorize all that music?
I had never written a score for "Siwa" -- I just memorized it. In contrast to classical or traditional Chinese music, where written scores are needed, I discovered that they [members of Sambasunda] mostly rely on their ears and visual cues, unless the arrangement is complicated and it's absolutely necessary to have a written score.
So one of the other musical configurations on Pendulum is you playing with Indian percussionist Ramesh Shotham, Hungarian violinist Zoltán Lantos, and pianist Matthias Frey. How did this come about?
This set of songs was recorded at the home studio of Mattias Frey, who has a very nice home in a valley with an apple orchard. I've known Ramesh, Zoltan and Mattias for nearly 10 years. Our first chance to work together was in 2008 for Mattias' Musicians Beyond Borders Project, which was an earth-shaking experience for me, since everything was improvised. All three musicians have a background in jazz, as well as experience in cross-cultural music collaborations. For this album, it produced some unbelievable results. The song "Simple Gravity" started with one melody, and paved the way for other compositions. These guys are such seasoned musicians, and it was immensely fulfilling to play with them.
So tell us how each of these songs by "Chung Yufeng and the Aphelhof Friends" came about.
So the titles of these improvised songs come from the different types of pendulums described in physics. "Simple Gravity" and "Magnetic" were duets, while "Ballistic" was done by a trio. We also performed as a quartet, improvising completely from start to finish on a song called "Outside/In." The idea for "Simple Gravity" came to me in 2015 on a trip to India. I become enamored with Indian music and couldn't stop listening to it. I think Indian music is one of the treasures of human civilization. For me it's a portal into another universe. “Simple Gravity" features Ramesh on percussion. He plays the Gatham drum from South India. The structure of the song is simple but it's a very difficult piece, with the switch to 7/4 time in the middle, which I set up to let Ramesh to unleash his full talents. This time meter is important in Indian music, and was suited to Ramesh's style, so it was fun. When he first heard the demo I gave him, he said to me: "This is Indian music!" That made me very happy, and gave me a boost of confidence in the piece.
Yes, he could see that you wanted to pay tribute to Indian music, or perhaps we should say he was an influence on your composition.
"Pipamenco" was another song by the Apfelhof Friends. I wrote it in 2010, when I started to become interested in Flamenco. I love the way this music "explodes" and I felt the pipa could match up to this level of energy. Flamenco is one of the rare musics of the world where the excitement grows as the sound gets louder. Its system of song and dance combined are like our [Chinese] operas, but there's a lot of space in the middle for to be creative. That's why I like it, and tried to get into it. This piece is a based on the Flamenco style soleá, where we produce a similar flow. Zoltan leads the tune with a Hungarian flavor in his violin playing -- I encourage everyone to listen to his improvised parts in the middle. When we recorded, I felt all I could to do was just play backing accompaniment -- he was so superb. Zoltan graduated from conservatory in Budapest, studied Indian music for 10 years and now mostly plays jazz. He's just an amazing musician.
I think it's quite interesting how you sometimes choose to be in the background on this album.
Yes, of course traditionally the pipa is a soloist's instrument, and it excels in this area. But I wanted to break out of the traditional mold when working with other musicians. So for this album, I stayed at the sidelines in a supporting role, and it turns out that being an accompanist is not easy. For instance, the pipa is not a chordal instrument, so you have to re-think your role in terms of the music and how you fit in the arrangement of a piece. And though it looks as if I'm taking a backseat role, I'm actually behind the curtain as the director, so to speak. All of the compositions were written by me and so I'm steering the narrative of the music.
Then we have the song "Nest," a solo piece. As I understand it, this piece is about your hometown of Danshui (a coastal town in Northern Taiwan).
That's right. I wrote this piece as a tribute to my hometown, as I feel very attached to the place. It always rains in Danshui, and I wanted to capture the feeling of rain falling through the pipa. The pipa lacks the natural sustain of the guitar, so I spent some time practicing and developing a left hand technique to achieve a longer sustain, to imitate or convey the feeling of a rainy climate. I think of a nest as a homey, cozy feeling, which I particularly like. With this song I was trying to capture an intimate feeling. The pipa as an instrument often comes across as inaccessible, so I feel the need to show that it's capable of warmth and humor. So although it's a solo piece in keeping with pipa tradition, this piece is not at all traditional.
I have to admit that if I didn't know of you and your music, I would have still seen the pipa as a serious instrument. I wouldn't have taken the time to listen to it.
Yes, that's I'm trying to do. Remove everyone's "fear" of the instrument.
And thank you for doing so. These past few years, I've really come to love the sound of the instrument, as I understand and hear it in a different way. Anyhow, what is your biggest hope for the people who listen to the album?
My hope is that people will feel a sense of closeness and humor in the music.
On today’s program, I welcome a musician I particularly adore, pipa player Chung Yufeng. Her debut solo album, "which is called "Pendulum," has finally been released and marks the culmination of a ten-year journey. Chung Yufeng is here to tell us about the story of "Pendulum." Welcome, Yufeng.
Hello, Kafei-mao, thank you, and hello everyone! As you mentioned, it took 10 years for me to conceive, write, and record the album. The name "Pendulum" came to mind because everyone's perception of the pipa is tied to traditional Chinese music. The pendulum, as a tool for measuring time, came to mind when I first had an opportunity to collaborate with musicians who were not from the Chinese music tradition. It was a challenge for me because the pipa’s role in Chinese music is somewhat limited when it comes to groove and rhythm. So when I started to work with musicians from different countries and traditions, I had to approach my instrument in a fresh, new way. So I thought of the pipa like a pendulum, a basic instrument for measuring and keeping time. That was the starting point for me to compose these songs. The main illustration on the CD cover reflects the journey. It was done by my friend who is a musician and scholar, Hsieh Jie-ting. He took an old illustration of a Nanguan-style pipa and made it look like a sailing ship. I think the image of the ship being rocked back and forth on the ocean waves accurately describes this project, which was a long, musical trip that swung back and forth between East and West, and the traditional and the modern.
There are many stereotypes associated with the pipa: Chinese music, [Confucian] tradition, the image of the instrument being strummed by a woman wearing a qipao. But actually, many musicians have been taking up new and challenging endeavors with the pipa. You have spent many years playing this instrument in different musical settings around the world, breaking the barriers of tradition by trying new things. Can you talk overall about the makeup of the music on this album?
I worked with three different groups of musicians from different cultural backgrounds. The first group I worked with was at the Migration Music Festival (in Taipei) in 2006, which consisted of Ramesh Shotham of South India, Hungarian violinist Zoltán Lantos, and a German composer and pianist named Matthias Frey -- we call this group the "Apfelhof (Apple Orchard) Friends." The second group was Sambasunda, a traditional music ensemble from Indonesia, and the third set is composed of two Swedish musicians, Daniel Fredriksson and Daniel Pettersson.
Talk about working with the Swedish musicians from Sotali (Daniel Fredriksson and Daniel Pettersson), and their instruments, the Mandola and Nyckelharpa.
Sweden's traditional music falls under the Nordic folk music family. Like everywhere else in the 1960s and 1970s, Sweden was experiencing a folk music revival. One interesting thing that's hard to believe is that the Mandola is a new sound in traditional Swedish folk music. It wasn't used in the music until the 1980s by a musician named Ale Möller. The Nyckelharpa dates back to 1350, but almost became extinct until the 1960s. A combined effort by the Swedish government, musicians, and scholars helped to revive the instrument's use. So both of these instruments and the story of their role in folk music gave me a lot of food for thought in terms of what I'm trying to do.
I really enjoyed the song "From Woman to Woman". Please tell us more about it.
This was one of the first original pieces I composed. Back then, I had no idea how to compose own my own. All I knew then was that I wanted to have something dedicated to women. Many traditional songs written for the pipa evoke “Guiyuan” stories (tales of the tragic circumstances of women in ancient and imperial China). But I wanted to express something that affirms the stories of the hardship and struggles of women in a more positive and modern way. It's a song for my mother, and it's also a song for all women.
With Sotali, there's the song "The Sleepless Cuckoo (in 9/8time)." There are other songs in interesting rhythmic meters on the album. What made you compose these songs in this way?
I wanted to prove to myself that I could write songs for the pipa in unusual time signatures (other than the typical 4/4). Working with Sotali was a perfect opportunity, since Swedish Polska music is often in 9/8 time. So to prepare for my collaboration, I wrote the piece with the beats split into 3-2-2-2 (as in counting "1, 2, 3, 1-2, 1-2, 1-2"). However I didn't get it exactly right. Polska songs are indeed in 9/8, but the beats are split differently, into 3-3-3 or 2-2-2-3. So my intended tribute to Swedish folk didn't turn out as I had planned, but we were all happy with the result nonetheless.
Tell us about the song "Siwa."
This recording was a collaboration with the Indonesian Gamelan ensemble Sambasunda. I wrote it based on Arabic scale. It was great to see them excited to play this song, they seemed to love it. For me, it was the perfect collaboration, for I've learned that if a musician is not interested in the music at hand, then it won't work, no matter how much you force it. Being a Muslim country, Indonesia has many Arabic influences, so the song transformed into an Asian-Arabic hybrid. This recording was a very exciting version for me. Last year, I performed with the band at a festival in Indonesia, and when I arrived for an evening rehearsal, the electricity had gone out. It was such a pleasure to practice "Siwa" in the pitch-black dark.
*To further describe Sambasunda's music, I came to realize their music has a beauty that one finds in [Taiwan's] indigenous music. Add to that their Indian and Arabic influences, you have something very special. The frequencies in gamelan music are so pleasing to the ear. The first time I heard the metal mallet [percussion], I thought, how can music sound so good, so rich? So with "Siwa," I wanted to set up the song's arrangement to let these musicians shine. Even though we were of different races and cultures, we were able to connect using a unique vocabulary we developed together. We completely understood each other like distant relatives. [*This excerpt was added from a separate interview with another radio program host, Ma Shih-fang, 2018/05/15]
A few years back, I got to interview the members of Sambasunda and found out that you guys didn't use written scores. Or rather, you did have written scores, but they were only sparsely noted with just a few bars -- play here, rest here...so how did you memorize all that music?
I had never written a score for "Siwa" -- I just memorized it. In contrast to classical or traditional Chinese music, where written scores are needed, I discovered that they [members of Sambasunda] mostly rely on their ears and visual cues, unless the arrangement is complicated and it's absolutely necessary to have a written score.
So one of the other musical configurations on Pendulum is you playing with Indian percussionist Ramesh Shotham, Hungarian violinist Zoltán Lantos, and pianist Matthias Frey. How did this come about?
This set of songs was recorded at the home studio of Mattias Frey, who has a very nice home in a valley with an apple orchard. I've known Ramesh, Zoltan and Mattias for nearly 10 years. Our first chance to work together was in 2008 for Mattias' Musicians Beyond Borders Project, which was an earth-shaking experience for me, since everything was improvised. All three musicians have a background in jazz, as well as experience in cross-cultural music collaborations. For this album, it produced some unbelievable results. The song "Simple Gravity" started with one melody, and paved the way for other compositions. These guys are such seasoned musicians, and it was immensely fulfilling to play with them.
So tell us how each of these songs by "Chung Yufeng and the Aphelhof Friends" came about.
So the titles of these improvised songs come from the different types of pendulums described in physics. "Simple Gravity" and "Magnetic" were duets, while "Ballistic" was done by a trio. We also performed as a quartet, improvising completely from start to finish on a song called "Outside/In." The idea for "Simple Gravity" came to me in 2015 on a trip to India. I become enamored with Indian music and couldn't stop listening to it. I think Indian music is one of the treasures of human civilization. For me it's a portal into another universe. “Simple Gravity" features Ramesh on percussion. He plays the Gatham drum from South India. The structure of the song is simple but it's a very difficult piece, with the switch to 7/4 time in the middle, which I set up to let Ramesh to unleash his full talents. This time meter is important in Indian music, and was suited to Ramesh's style, so it was fun. When he first heard the demo I gave him, he said to me: "This is Indian music!" That made me very happy, and gave me a boost of confidence in the piece.
Yes, he could see that you wanted to pay tribute to Indian music, or perhaps we should say he was an influence on your composition.
"Pipamenco" was another song by the Apfelhof Friends. I wrote it in 2010, when I started to become interested in Flamenco. I love the way this music "explodes" and I felt the pipa could match up to this level of energy. Flamenco is one of the rare musics of the world where the excitement grows as the sound gets louder. Its system of song and dance combined are like our [Chinese] operas, but there's a lot of space in the middle for to be creative. That's why I like it, and tried to get into it. This piece is a based on the Flamenco style soleá, where we produce a similar flow. Zoltan leads the tune with a Hungarian flavor in his violin playing -- I encourage everyone to listen to his improvised parts in the middle. When we recorded, I felt all I could to do was just play backing accompaniment -- he was so superb. Zoltan graduated from conservatory in Budapest, studied Indian music for 10 years and now mostly plays jazz. He's just an amazing musician.
I think it's quite interesting how you sometimes choose to be in the background on this album.
Yes, of course traditionally the pipa is a soloist's instrument, and it excels in this area. But I wanted to break out of the traditional mold when working with other musicians. So for this album, I stayed at the sidelines in a supporting role, and it turns out that being an accompanist is not easy. For instance, the pipa is not a chordal instrument, so you have to re-think your role in terms of the music and how you fit in the arrangement of a piece. And though it looks as if I'm taking a backseat role, I'm actually behind the curtain as the director, so to speak. All of the compositions were written by me and so I'm steering the narrative of the music.
Then we have the song "Nest," a solo piece. As I understand it, this piece is about your hometown of Danshui (a coastal town in Northern Taiwan).
That's right. I wrote this piece as a tribute to my hometown, as I feel very attached to the place. It always rains in Danshui, and I wanted to capture the feeling of rain falling through the pipa. The pipa lacks the natural sustain of the guitar, so I spent some time practicing and developing a left hand technique to achieve a longer sustain, to imitate or convey the feeling of a rainy climate. I think of a nest as a homey, cozy feeling, which I particularly like. With this song I was trying to capture an intimate feeling. The pipa as an instrument often comes across as inaccessible, so I feel the need to show that it's capable of warmth and humor. So although it's a solo piece in keeping with pipa tradition, this piece is not at all traditional.
I have to admit that if I didn't know of you and your music, I would have still seen the pipa as a serious instrument. I wouldn't have taken the time to listen to it.
Yes, that's I'm trying to do. Remove everyone's "fear" of the instrument.
And thank you for doing so. These past few years, I've really come to love the sound of the instrument, as I understand and hear it in a different way. Anyhow, what is your biggest hope for the people who listen to the album?
My hope is that people will feel a sense of closeness and humor in the music.